Why Health is Wealth with Justin David Carl

Transcript:

On this episode of the Personal Finance Podcast, why Your Health Is Wealth with Justin David, Carl,

what's up everybody? And welcome to the Personal Finance Podcast. I'm your host Andrew, founder of Master money.co. And today on the Personal Finance Podcast, we're gonna do something different and we're gonna talk about why Help is wealth. If you guys have any questions, make sure you join the Master Money Newsletter by going to master money.co/newsletter.

And don't forget to follow us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast player. And if you wanna how out the show, consider leaving a five star rating and review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. Now, today we're gonna be diving into why Health is Wealth with Justin David Coral.

Justin is one of those folks who is extremely fit and he's got a framework that really helps him stay fit and do this consistently. And what we're diving into today is we are gonna talk about a bunch of different areas. First, I want you to note that your health is one of the biggest impacts you can actually have on your money.

Why? Because healthy people have more mental acuity, which means you're gonna perform better at your job, which also means that you are going to be able to make more money. And so health is one of those important factors that we haven't talked enough about on this show. But this is going to be a big, big difference maker for most people.

And what we're gonna be diving into in this episode is a bunch of various areas that I really think most people need to understand how impactful now this can be. We're gonna talk about what people get wrong. About diet and hydration and thinking through how to create a diet that actually works for you, how often you actually need to work out and how consistent you need to be when it comes to those workouts.

Justin and I each workout pretty much every single day. Do you need to do that? Most likely not. And so this is one of those areas where we dive into how frequently you need to work out to have that mental acuity to be in shape to make sure you are your best self. In addition. We're gonna talk through strength training versus cardio and how to use it to your advantage.

We're gonna talk through why VO two max and grip strength are really, really important for longevity and your health span. Plus, we're gonna talk about why protecting your health is one of the highest ROI things that you can do. This is an investment in yourself. You can reduce your lifelong cost of health insurance just by doing this as well.

And so money and health tie in together beautifully. This is one of those areas where if you master your money, you can also master your health. And if you do both, you are gonna absolutely be unstoppable in this world. So these are one of those areas where I definitely want you to tune into this. Justin has some amazing information.

He has helped hundreds of people get in shape and really get into the best shape of their life. And if you are someone who is a high performer or you strive to be a high performer, this is that episode for you. So really pumped for you to listen to this. So without further ado, let's welcome Justin back to the Personal Finance Podcast.

So Justin, welcome back to the Personal Finance Podcast. Great to be here again, brother. So thankful that I met you at FinCon and I'm back on for round two. Exactly. I'm excited to have you here too. We're gonna talk about a different topic and something we really haven't talked about much on this show without just kind of in passing.

We've had conversations with, you know, when I'm talking to the audience, I'll talk about how important this is to me. But this is something that I think really needs to be talked about a little bit more. And we're gonna talk through why health is wealth on this episode, and we're gonna talk through how to take care of your health.

Some of the things that you and I each do when it comes to thinking about our health. Taken a lot of big steps over the course of the last two or three years, just making sure health is one of my number one priorities. And so this is gonna be more so a, I guess, overall conversation about some of the things that you do.

I'll talk about some of the things I do and we can kind of dive deeper into this. So when we first just start out here, I want to kind of talk through diet. Diet obviously is one of the most important areas when it comes to health longevity, and thinking about how we can actually make sure that we are on track with our fitness goals.

And so can you kind of talk through the way that you think about your diet specifically? I wanna talk through kind of the macros because for some people they may choose one diet, some people may choose a different diet. But I wanna kind of talk through macros why macros are important and do you track macros, all those different things.

And let's kind of dive into that first. Great question. Awesome topic. And I believe it or not, tracked my macros. Tracked my calories for 10 years straight. Now. It has been about two years since I've tracked. But back in my early thirties, sometime around 32, 33, I worked with my first fitness coach and I'd never tracked my calories before.

And the first two weeks he just had me track them and we quickly discovered why I could not get a six pack after trying to get a six pack for 15 plus years. And that's because six days of the week I would literally eat chicken and broccoli, and then on Sunday I would have a cheat day and. Come to find out, I can easily eat 7,000 to 10,000 calories in a single day.

So those six days of quote unquote clean eating were completely destroyed by my excessive overeating on my cheat day. Now, I think some people, maybe they don't have the ability to consume as much food as I can if I'm not left unchecked. But essentially that brought up my average calories per day to above my maintenance calories, which was why I was getting a little bit fatter every year.

Now, I worked out at the same time, seven days a week, oftentimes for two to three hours a day at the gym. Then I would go for a hike, and after those first two weeks, my coach was like. Two things. I'm gonna set some macro targets for you to hit. I'm gonna set some calorie targets for you to hit, and I want you to only strength train five to six days a week, and I want you to follow a specific workout program that is going to be the same program for 12 weeks, and I had never tracked prior to this.

It was crazy in six months. True story, I lost 30 pounds of body fat and I went from 18% body fat down to around 8% body fat in six months. Wow. And I got shredded, I got ripped, got the abs for the first time of of my life, literally was so stoked. Started posting shirtless photos on Instagram. I was stoked to go to the beach parties, to the pool parties.

And this is something I've been chasing since I was probably 14 or 15. Like I was one of those kids who was buying the as seen on TV ad machines because I so desperately wanted a six pack and. Prior to tracking my nutrition, I just ate enough to always be in a slight surplus. So I always had that extra layer of body fat.

So I always say that I was kind of fit, kind of fat, so no one say I was overweight or anything like that. But I was never excited to take off my shirt because I didn't have that six pack that I wanted, that I saw, you know, on the cover of Muscle and Fitness as a kid growing up, that I saw the action movie stars having.

And finally, in my early thirties, working with a coach, tracking my nutrition, tracking my macros, tracking my calories. It was like. Just simple math, and I just followed the macros, followed the calories, and the body fat just melted off. Oh man, that's an incredible transformation. It's all just from tracking your macros, which I think the one big thing for me early too, is when I started to track my macros or have an understanding of them, that just gave me way more overall education of what is actually going on.

And I could understand, okay, well if I put this into my body, this is gonna have a massive difference overall. Then if I just made sure that I kind of stuck to my plan so I could see the difference on specific foods, and I remember even being able to kind of factor in some of the foods that I liked when I wanted to factor in and look at some of the macros that I'm looking at there.

So for you specifically, or anybody out there that you coach or whatever else, how do you kind of talk to them when they're thinking about their specific goals? Let's say somebody wants to put on some muscle, maybe they wanna build some muscle. Do you tell them? Like for me specifically, I eat one gram of protein per pound of body weight.

That's the way I kind of always just been operated. I make it try to as simple as possible. Do you tell them to eat more or less than that? And then how do you think about the rest of their macros once you kind of look at protein? 'cause protein is obviously the biggest topic for most people out there.

Every food is throwing more protein into it. So how do you kind of think about protein? Is that your first staple that you wanna look at? Yeah, great question. I wanna cover a couple quick things. I'll address those. So I actually ate dessert every single day and still do. And that's the amazing thing is when you start tracking your food and as long as you're hitting your macros and staying at your total calorie target.

You can have dessert every single day. It was crazy. There was a period where I would save four to 600 calories per day for dessert, and I found these yaso Greek yogurt ice cream bars, and I would eat four to six a night, and I was 8% body fat. And so I still eat dessert every day, and that's one of the powers of tracking and literally logging your food, you know, weighing on a food scale, tracking it in something like MyFitnessPal.

Now there's these really cool apps like. Macro factor and Cal AI where you can just take a picture and it estimates it for you. So it's getting easier and easier. So it is a little challenging to track your food if you've never tracked it before. But the way I thought about it and the way I teach it to my clients is it's like brushing your teeth or taking.

One to two minutes to be mindful of what you're eating. So if you can take a one to two minute to enter what you're eating, it allows you to pause and appreciate what you're actually putting into your body. And at the same time you're learning, okay, six ounces of chicken looks like this. A cup of rice looks like this, a cup of broccoli looks like this.

So that'll when you eventually go back to intuitive eating, which I've done for the last two years, and maintain 10% or less body fat, you know how to eat to support your ideal physique. Yeah. So going to your question about the actual split of the macros, how much protein, how much carbs, how much fat. I believe the current scientific literature shows that 0.6 grams is the minimum per pound of body weight is the minimum that you want to ingest in order to support muscle building.

And. Muscle maintenance. So I recommend to my clients 0.6 to one grams per pound of body weight. Some clients do better having more protein. It makes 'em feel more satiated. They like eating more protein. Some clients they want more carbs because maybe they do a lot of cardio and they need that source of energy because carbs is our body's preferred source of fuel.

Now you can train your body to do almost anything. This is why people have success with a ketogenic diet, which is a really high fat diet. You can train your body to burn fat as the preferred source of fuel, but you have to switch over and it takes a few weeks to do that. And people go through all sorts of challenges like the keto flu, if you've heard of that, where you just feel like absolute garbage.

Yeah. And then finally your body switches over to burning fat. But. Originally humans carbs for fuel. So the way I look at it is 0.6 to one grams of protein per pound of body weight, which usually nets out for total calories for the day to be around 20 to 25% of your total calories for today comes from protein, and that 20 to 25 is, are you having 0.6, 0.8 or one gram?

And that's kind of why the, it slides from 20 to 25 and then I suggest to my clients that they have 15 to 30% come from fat. I'll tell you why. The difference typically, in my experience, I've been coaching online for over three years with both men and women. Women tend to do better around 25 to 30%. Coming from fat because it helps with their hormone regulation, mood stability, et cetera, and men can get away with 15 to 20% of their total calories coming from fat.

Most men. Some men do need more. They need 25 to 30. But my experience working with well over a hundred clients is men do pretty good around 15 to 20% coming from fat, and women do better with 20 to 30% coming from fat. And I would argue more like 25 to 30 coming from fat, and then the other 45 to 60% coming from carbs.

So none of this matters if you're eating too many calories. Yep. So this is the thing that I have to teach every client, and I had to learn myself. So I'm not pointing the finger, I'm not judging. It doesn't matter how healthy you eat if you consume too many calories because your body, any calories it does not burn for the day gets stored as body fat.

So body fat is literally just stored energy. So if you think about back to ancient times when we actually struggled with feasting and famines, like when. Humans couldn't find food. Awesome. We have this stored energy source called body fat that we can pull from until we find the food. 'cause the body is always trying to optimize for survival.

And it's unfortunate in this day and age that not only is food so readily available, but we're also programmed to eat all the time. There's commercials on tv, on the radio, you see food on social media. We're constantly told to eat, eat, eat, eat. And if you're not careful. It doesn't matter how much or how healthy you eat, if you eat too many calories, your body's just gonna store it as body fat.

And so the key is, the way I think about the macro split is that is to create the physique that you want. So by having a call it 25% fat, 25% protein, and 50% carbs, you're gonna have an amazing energy for your workouts coming from the carbs. You're gonna have good fat, so you have clear thinking, your hormone levels and metabolism is good and you feel satiated.

And then the protein is gonna be there for muscle maintenance and muscle building. And that will give you a nice physique. And my experience working with over a hundred clients over the last three years is most people eat. Not enough protein and too much fat. So when they start tracking, almost 95% of the clients I've worked with, they start tracking and they're eating 30, 40, 50% fat and like 10, 15% protein.

Interesting. And the, the split is just way off. Because off, if you think about it, especially packaged food, processed food, it's just jam packed full of fat and processed carbs, and it's addicting as fuck. I think that's where, you know, especially when you don't have an education when it comes to eating, you're gonna realize pretty quickly that you know the high fat content and the high carbohydrate content is really gonna do a number on you if you don't have enough protein in place.

And for me specifically, I am someone who has tweaked this a million different times and I do it first. I was, you know, tracking all my macros. Once I got a feel for what my macros need to be, I started to make sure that I was adding in foods that helped me feel good. So, like, for example, a lot of times I have now stopped eating breakfast, so I kind of fast all the way through the morning.

I'll eat a lunch and usually the lunch that I eat doesn't have many carbohydrates in it either. 'cause usually I want to be more so kind of in a deep work session during, by that timeframe and just going throughout the day and then doing work. Then I'll increase my carbohydrate intake later on in the day.

And part of this is also because I do a lot of my workouts in the evening. So I'll do workouts later on the day. I do running and and lifting and all those different things. And I do it later on in the day. And so I kind of target my macro intake based on some of the activities that I'm doing and based on feel.

And this was something that was developed over time. It took me a lot of, you know, trial and error to get to this point in time. But now I feel in like I'm in such a good position from where I used to be, where I would just kind of eat whatever I felt like at that given point in time. But now I have kind of structured it into my day where I feel best.

And that has absolutely been life changing for me. Yeah, a couple notes on that. So the other thing I recommend to all my clients and what I follow is 80 to 90% of your calories should be coming from Whole Foods. So I'm not a zealot that says no processed food, because modern science has made some pretty delicious, enjoyable, processed things.

And as long as 80% or more of your food is from whole food sources, this meaning like single ingredient, you know, like a piece of chicken, a piece of steak. And I would even consider, you know, if you are on a plant-based diet, minimally processed things like tofu, Tempe, Satan, as protein sources, those, and then fruits, vegetables, et cetera, 80% or more.

Coming from Whole Foods, you're gonna feel good because when you eat a bunch of processed junk, it's really easy to eat too many calories because they are engineered to be hyper palatable and they're addictive. But when you eat whole Foods, it's much harder to overeat because your body has to do a lot more of the work of actually breaking down that whole food versus these processed foods have already been processed.

So this is one of the reasons you can start with one or two chips and suddenly you've eaten the whole Costco size bag of chips and you're like, what is going on here? I'm still hungry. Right. A friend of mine brought this idea to me that I think is so incredible, a little controversial, but it's really interesting if you think of processed food as street drugs.

So they street drugs like. Cocaine. They take the coca leaf, they break it down, and then they cut it with a bunch of other stuff. So they get way more. So that pure powder is now 10 times as much powder so they can sell it to 10 times as much many people and make 10 times as much money. And that is the same thing that is happening with processed food, is they're adding in all this random shit and diluting these pure ingredients so that they can sell more and make more money.

And by adding all those additional cheap ingredients, it makes it even more addictive. And when someone told that to me, I was like, holy shit. No wonder food companies do this. No wonder it's so addictive. And no wonder these companies are making so much freaking money and continue to make more and more hyper palatable, ultra processed food 'cause they make more money.

It's more addictive and follow the money. Exactly. That makes a ton of sense. And I think overall, most people, if they look at it that way, if they think about it that way, I think it's gonna be one of those things that it becomes, you know, second nature, once you get the ball rolling, I always see this as getting the ball rolling downhill.

And at the beginning it's very hard. Like if you are used to a processed food diet, it is very hard to switch over. But once you start to, you know, replace one thing at a time and gradually get this going, you're gonna feel like you are pushing a snowball downhill. The same thing for compound interest is once you get the ball rolling and you get your dollars invested and you get a feel for it, you can start to increase it as your income increase.

It's the same thing goes for fitness and they're really, you know, very much correlated. And we'll talk about that as we go through this here today. But I think that is one of the most important things that people need to notice. Your diet is, you know. The majority of the game when we're talking about this stuff.

And then we'll get, we're gonna get into exercise too, but I think this is just one of those areas where most people need to make sure that they understand what they're doing first. And for those of you out there, one of the things that I did is, and usually if you have like standard health insurance, this is covered with your standard health insurance too.

There is a company out there called Nourish. And Nourish is like dieticians where your health insurance typically will cover this. So if you're out there and you're like, I don't know where to start, or I don't know what to do, I used them for years and they were actually really, really good when it came to just thinking about, you know, what foods do I need to eat?

How much protein do I need, how much you know, vegetable should I be adding into my meals? And it was very, very helpful to just have these conversations with people. And so it is literally free through your insurance, just make sure your insurance covers it. But most insurances are covered through Nourish.

So I think it's J another interesting way to kind of go about this, if you are looking for a place to start. Also, let's talk through some of the exercise side a little bit. 'cause when I think through this portion, this is obviously a huge, huge portion of something that you and I have had conversations about in the past.

And I want to kind of talk through maybe your routines when it comes to exercise, how you think about exercise, strength versus cardio, all those different things. So first, what does your training schedule look like right now? And if someone is looking to, you know, start or revamp their training schedule, what should they kind of focus on?

Great question. I wanna connect the idea of intermittent fasting and fueling around your exercise that you brought up. Sure. And I think that'll be a perfect segue into training. How I train, how I recommend people to train, et cetera. So intermittent fasting is something I've done for over a decade, and essentially it's just a time restricted eating window.

So Andrew mentioned that he typically does not have breakfast, and he'll have lunch and then dinner and maybe some snacks in between or something. I'm not totally sure what he does. And I did that for years. I would train strength train in the morning, fasted in a completely fasted state, and time restricted eating.

Intermittent fasting. There's lots of different versions of it. You can do a 12 hour fast, a 16 hour fast, an 18 hour fast. You can do it so you don't eat breakfast. And then basically you eat between two and eight o'clock. You can do where you eat in the morning, but stop eating by two o'clock, and then you're fasting the rest of the evening, and it doesn't really matter.

But one of the incredible things about intermittent fasting is you're essentially calorie restricting by restricting the time. So this is why a lot of these different diets work is because they're by default reducing the amount of calories that you eat. So to illustrate this, if you're on a keto diet, you've basically removed carbs.

A keto diet. A true keto diet is very, very little carbs like less than I think 20 grams, which is like nothing. And so you've removed the whole food group, so by default you're going to eat less, so you're going to be in a calorie deficit and you're going to lose weight. Oh my god. Math works out. Same thing with time restricted eating, so.

If you're only eating in a six hour window, call it from two to eight, your chances of overeating are much smaller than if you had breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and you had that space in between for your body to digest that food and to develop appetite again. So this is why Keto. And time restricted eating, or intermittent fasted works is because behind the scenes, they're reducing the total number of calories you're eating, right?

And this is the same thing that happens with a whole food plant-based diet. If you're only eating Whole Foods, a hundred percent Whole Foods, it is so hard to overeat because you're eating so much fiber, which is making you feel full, which then by definition, you're eating less calories and you're in a calorie deficit and you start losing weight, right?

And it's the same thing back in eighties, nineties, these ultra low fat or no fat diets, they've just removed another food group. And by default, you're in a calorie deficit. So you start losing weight. So one of the beautiful things about tracking your nutrition is you don't have to remove fat or remove carbs or anything else.

You can have everything. Still be in a calorie deficit and still have dessert. But on the note of intermittent fasting, when I started playing pickleball seven days a week for two to five hours a day, I realized I could no longer train fasted because I would go work out at the gym strength train, then I go on the courts and I would have no energy.

If you play pickleball like I do, I am running all over the place. Explosive energy, sprinting from one side to the next, never letting anything that I could maybe get to go. So I started having breakfast again for the first time in probably 10 years. Back in April of last year, 2025, I realized I had to start fueling up in order to do these long two to five hour pickleball sessions, especially if I'm doing a double day where I'm strength training for 45 to 60 minutes and then going and playing two to five hours of pickleball.

So depending on your physical output, I obviously, you can tell, spend a lot of energy doing physical things. Now, a normal person, there may be strength training three or four times a week, and they don't have to be as strategic about fueling up. As someone who's cycling for two hours a day or running super huge amounts of mileage, those people just have to fuel more because their body's consuming more energy.

And if you want to not get sick, get injured, or completely bonk where you just like have no energy, you're gonna have to strategically fuel up. So if your strength training, say three times a week or four times a week. Totally get away with fasted training. No problem. If you are training in the evening, probably gonna need to fuel up for lunch or a snack before.

And really what I would recommend everybody is look at your ideal training split and when you want to work out, is it in the morning? Is it at lunch? Is it in the evening? And how much are you actually doing? Because I think if you can get away with intermittent fasting and training in the morning, it's gonna be really easy for you to shed unwanted weight.

Without even tracking calories. No, I think that is a great thing to know because the timing of when you eat and the weight, the thought process there is obviously the reason why we're eating is so that we can have energy and we can have energy to expend, and so that is more so why. It should be structured in different ways for each and every single person.

And I agree with you. I mean, especially if you are doing a lot of physical activity in the morning and or you know, you like to get your workouts done in the morning. I go through seasons where I do that. That's where like the fueling in the morning could be something that is really important, especially if you're doing as high volume as Justin is, that is an area where definitely you wanna probably make sure that you're eating something, otherwise you're gonna bonk or you're gonna crash.

Whereas folks who you know are exercising later in the day, they may be able to do intermittent fasting if they're doing their, their exercise in the evening or the afternoons. That is gonna be another area where you can look at that. So how do you kind of think about or structure this? So like do you think through strength training, you said, you know, you strength train on a bunch of different days, so how do you kind of choose how many days you're going to strength train and in addition, if you're playing pickleball every day, I'm assuming that's kind of your main source of cardio.

Is there any other cardio that you think about too? Great question. So one note, if you are training less than one and a half to two hours of training in the morning, whether it's a combination of cardio and strength or all cardio or all strength, I think you can totally get away with intermittent fasting.

If you're starting to go above two hours of training in a single day, you're probably gonna need the fuel up before or during that training session if you want to not crash. So I think even if you're training in the morning, you can totally intermittent fast. If you're doing traditional 45 to 60 minute workout, combination of strength training in cardio or one or the other, totally fine for me.

I recommend to people strength train three times a week. And if you want to strengthen the most important muscle in your body, your heart, do a couple, either combine a little bit of cardio into those three days, or take another day and have a dedicated cardio day. But all the longevity research is now showing how important strength training is for health span, meaning the quality of your years as you age and get older and older.

So I'm a firm believer that everyone should strength train. At least two times a week, if not three times a week. So I recommend three, and I think you can be in incredible shape working out three times a week, strength training and adding in 10 to 20 minutes of cardio on one or two of those days. And you can be in amazing shape.

You don't need to work out six times a week, seven times a week. You can literally work out three days a week, be in amazing shape, and each one of those workouts is 45 to 60 minutes. So we're talking two and a half to three hours of exercise per week and you can be incredible shape. Now, some people like me, I love to workout.

I wanna workout every single day. So for me, I strength train, and this is going to be a little confusing, but I'll explain it. So I follow a six day split for strength and it's upper body push on one day next day, upper body pull, next day, leg day, and then. Day four is upper body two push. Yep. Fifth day is upper body pull and sixth day is leg.

Day two for the week. Now here's what I do. I unt attach it from having to happen in the seven day period. So this is where I'm at a level of deep relationship with my body. So if my body's like, whoa, we're cooked, we can either strength train today or do pickleball, but we can't do both. I just choose one of them, or it's like, Hey, we're exhausted.

Today is just walking and foam rolling and active recovery. So that six day split may take me eight days or 10 days, or even 12 days, or even 14 days, depending on how hard I'm pushing myself on the courts, the pickleball courts, because on a given week I might be super well rested, low workload, not much going on with my family, no stress, and I'm like, great.

Six days of strength training this week, seven days of pickleball this week. And then the next week, family shit's going on work, shit's going on. And I do three strength days in seven days and four pickleball days in seven days. And I just listen intuitively to my body and look and see what my whoop is saying about my recovery.

So. I'm at a level where I've been so diligent, I've been so obsessed with fitness and training that I can intuitively listen to my body For my clients. I put 'em on a three day, four day or five day split. And then the crazy ones who love to work out as much as me, I'll give 'em a six day split. But tell them, Hey, if your body says you need to skip one of these and have two rest days, do that.

Yeah, I think that is like a great way to think about this. 'cause I do something similar now and it, I have been lifting weights since I was 18 years old, or even some in high school for sports, things like that, and forever. For the longest time, I would do like the bro body building split, like for the longest time.

Then all of a sudden I switched it up and when I switched it up from doing a split, it's similar to yours. It's kind of a push pull split, but I do kind of full body push, full body pull back and forth. And what I did was I tested it in a bunch of different ways. I've tested literally every single split that is out there, but I figured out what my body responds to best is more frequency throughout the week, but lower volume in terms of like in one single session.

And so what I ended up doing was I will hit each body part for that push session, which push being, you know, quads and then any other push, you know, exercises that happen on the upper body. And I will look at that push session and I will go and do one exercise per body part. And then on the poll session, I'll do one exercise per body part, but I'm hitting it three times every single week.

And I've noticed my body just responds better to that. I feel better. I'm less achy, I'm less sore, I'm, it's less pounding on my joints, those types of things. And then adding in cardio and running, like run, I've been doing a lot more running as of late. And so usually running 20 to 30 plus miles a week is kind of where I range, which is just kind of like a standard, you know, mileage per week for any given runner.

And so that's been the area that has been feeling really good. And I felt better than I ever have before. My resting heart rate's a 42. My, every single time I go to the doctor, they freak out. Uh, but it's been one of those areas where I like to consistently work out. I feel better when I am working out.

And the more I can, the more I will. I wish I could run every day. My joints won't let me, but if I could, I would. And so it's one of those areas that I think is is super, super important for most people to kind of. Figure this out. And even like Justin said, when you get started reducing the amount of time that you're working out, maybe you're just doing, you know, lifting three days a week.

And I think everybody should strength train because health span is 90% of the reason why I shifted everything. Justin and I are both fans of Dr. Peter Attia. He's absolutely amazing in terms of talking about this kind of stuff. And it is one of those things where if you look at and focus on your health span, meaning how important or how amazing is the quality of life when you are in your seventies, eighties, and nineties, are you gonna be walking around with a walker?

Are you gonna be in a wheelchair or are you gonna be able to do the stuff that you actually wanna do? And that is really what I'm trying to focus on, is being able to do that kind of stuff. In addition to being really fit right now, you can do both and both are gonna help equip you for that timeframe.

So that's the way I structured mine as well. And so that is one of those areas where I love to just think through and kind of test over and over again to see what works and also what keeps you motivated, what keeps you going to the gym even when you don't want to. Those types of things are really, really important.

Yeah. A couple things that I want to illustrate. Strength training can be calisthenics, body weight movements, or it could be lifting weights like dumbbells, barbells. It could be kettlebells, it could be batons and clubs. It could be pushing a sled, which you and I both love pushing and pulling the sled so.

What I always encourage anyone is to follow the fun when it comes to your fitness. So do the things are fun and enjoyable for you. And there's types of strength training, dozens if not hundreds of different types and you can find one that's fun for you. Like some of my clients love kettlebells and hate dumbbells and barbells.

Yep. Some of my clients don't even wanna look at a kettlebell 'cause it's seems too far out there for them. So for me, I consider myself a hybrid athlete. So I do a combination of gymnastics, rings, calisthenics, traditional bodybuilding, kettlebells, batons, clubs, and the sled. Sandbags battle ropes, and these are just different skill sets, strength training, skill sets that I've picked up over the years.

'cause I get bored. Yeah, with bodybuilding, weightlifting. So I got into gymnastics rings during COVID when everything was shut down. I set up gymnastics rings in my garage, and I got super into it and I got so shredded and felt like a gymnast and looked like a gymnast. And now that's a staple is I might take 12 weeks off and do a peer bodybuilding, weightlifting, and then go back to doing predominantly gymnastics rings plus a weightlifting leg day.

Right now I'm in a hybrid where I'm doing some gymnastics rings, some traditional weightlifting along with the kettlebells and sandbags and sled, but. The point I'm trying to make is there's so many different ways to strike, train, and just keep exploring and have fun because I see a gym or any outdoor facility as a playground, and I wanna learn how to use every toy in that playground, every swing set, every thing.

I wanna understand how to play with it and play with it. And so I've. Picked up all these different skill sets around strength training over the years. And each one has been its own journey in itself. Just learning the skill, how to use it, how to not hurt myself, especially with things like clubs when you're swinging clubs around.

And I've definitely almost knocked myself out or given myself a concussion with that. But it's made my journey so fun and exciting. And when I get bored of one thing, I just go to something either new or something that I haven't done in a long time. And the thing about following the fun is fun taps into your spirit.

Your spirit is an infinitely renewable energy source, whereas willpower is finite. You might be good, I don't know when this episode's coming out. January of the new year, you're super into your workouts and then the willpower by then of January's all used up and you're no longer training anymore. But if you follow the fun, and that's one of the reasons I'm so into pickleball is pickleball is my main source of cardio.

I do do some running and some riding of a Peloton bike for VO two max training, and we can talk about that if you want, but. I can play five hours of pickleball, and it's like two seconds went by. I'm like, what? Five? Five hours went by. I wanna keep playing because I feel like a kid when I'm playing the sport of pickleball, and I think everyone can find different physical fitness endeavors that feel like pure play, whether it's Zumba dancing, trampolining, rollerblading, cycling, running, horse riding, I don't know, there's so many different types.

And just follow the fun. And then fitness becomes this beautiful journey of enjoyment instead of. Just struggling through a workout that doesn't even excite you. And I think that's such a wonderful tip, especially when it comes to just any of the workouts you're doing. And one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was cardio, which we're talking about here already, is, you know, you said your main source of cardio is pickleball, and if anybody hasn't played pickleball before, that was something that really kind of got me more interested back into cardio again.

For a couple of years I was just lifting and I wasn't doing much cardio. And pickleball is a great, like integral, you know, zone two activity unless you play like Justin does, where you're flying all over the place. But for the most part it can be a zone two activity if you're playing doubles where you are, you know, doing something that's interesting, that's fun that you enjoy.

Now if you are someone out there that's like, Hey, I don't really wanna play pickleball, but you like to hang out with your friends and talk to your friends, just go on a walk together every single day. Or if you are someone out there who is really interested in, you know, running or increasing your VO two max, and we'll talk about that in a second.

That is something that you should, you know, you could look at running, you could look at rowing, you could look at riding a stationary bike or cycling. There's so many different things that you could do out there that I think is super interesting. Join your local basketball, you know, league, join your local volleyball league, whatever it is, there's so many activities that you could do.

Just get out there. Get active. 'cause that's the most important thing overall is to find those things that you enjoy. So I cycle through this stuff just like you do Justin, where I'm thinking through, like right now I'm looking at doing a High Rocks and so I have friends who are asking me to do an ultra, I don't know if I wanna do an Ultra yet, but I'm interested in kind of doing a high rocks and kind of testing that out.

So I went and bought a rower. I have a rower in the house. I'm testing out if I really want to go do this. Uh, I got the sandbags and everything else, and so we're looking at this as something I want to test and see if I like it. I've gone through seasons where I've done marathons before. I've done all the New York Marathon, for example.

And I did the New York marathon. I think I told you this with in college. I did it for the first time and didn't train at all. The next couple of days after, when I finished the marathon, I finished it, but when the next couple of days I couldn't walk for a few days in a row. So it was one of those things where I have like tried everything from triathlons all the way across the board and it's really just going through these cycles and enjoying those cycles and having fun.

So I really like that tip. I think that's one that's really, really important for most people. Now let's talk about some of the longevity metrics that we are thinking through here. So VO two max is one of the big ones. How do you train your VO two max and why is it so important to you to make sure that your VO O2 max is something that is strong?

'cause if you look at Peter ATTs research or some of the folks out there, or the research that he studies, he talks about VO two MAX as a longevity metric. So you know, how do you track yours and what workouts do you do to kind of help increase your VO O2 max? Great question. I'm gonna back into it because you mentioned something that is so critical to health span and sticking with your fitness, and that's community.

So all the research for longevity shows that deep connections with people is actually the number one predictor of how long you're going to live, or at least one of the top ones. One of the easiest ways to make fitness so fun is to get involved with a community that is. Built around a certain sport or physical activity.

So you mentioned High Rocks. High Rocks is like, in my opinion, the new CrossFit, right? Not in the sense that it's the same, but in the sense of the hype around it. Everyone's super into High Rocks right now. One of my clients is literally training for a doubles, high Rocks event, and he's so excited. He joined a gym that has specific High Rocks training, and it doesn't matter.

One of the reasons I love pickleball so much is because of the community aspect. I have literally created 70 new friendships over the last eight months just because of pickleball. And I see these people 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 times a week, and I have all these friends that play pickleball, whether it's basketball, our mutual friend Chad Carson, small and mighty real estate investor, Chad Carson, he plays basketball with his local basketball group of friends.

And he's jazzed about it. He loves to use his strength training to support his basketball performance. I see this glimmer in his eye when I talk to him. He tells me, Justin, people hate playing basketball against me because I just like never stop hustling. I'm always hustling, hustling, hustling, and I just see the joy in his eyes when he talks about his basketball.

Playing with his local club that he does two or three times a week. And so whether it's pickleball cycling, there's cycling groups, there's run clubs, join a community, it's so empowering. And there's gyms, CrossFit gyms, high rocks, gyms, all sorts of things. Just join a community around whatever sport endeavor or physical activity that you're in and you'll have so much more fun.

So let's segue into VO two MAX training. Why that's important. Quick definition. Hopefully my memory serves me correct. So essentially VO O2 max is how efficiently your lungs, muscles, and body all work together to process oxygen. So a higher VO two max means that you are more efficient and your body works in better synchrony together.

So that you can run longer, faster, work out harder for longer, cycle for longer up, more mountains, more miles, et cetera. So one of the things that Peter Attiya talks about in his book, I believe it's Outlive. Outlive, yep. Is that VO two max, what your actual score is, is another one of the huge factors in your health span and your lifespan, and you can strategically increase and build your VO two max fairly easily without a whole lot of training, to be honest.

So. I got into this in March of 2025 because Whoop, which is a health tracker, they released this new feature called Whoop Age, where they give you a biological age score. And one of the metrics that influences that score is your VO two max. And I realized if I could increase my VO two max, my whoop age would decrease even more.

So my whoop age, I'll pull it up in a minute here as I'm talking, is over 11 years younger than my chronological age. And this is because my VO two max resting heart rate HRV, which is. Heart rate variability. Yeah, these are all really high, and they're actually at the level of someone who is 11 years younger than me.

So training your VO two max is very easy to do with running and cycling, in my opinion. There's other ways to train it, but you can swim, you could row, you could do other things. But VO two max is really easy to train with interval training while running or interval training while cycling, and this is how I do it.

So basically what I will do is I'll warm up. Let's say I'm doing a run. I will just jog five minutes, get my body warm. After my body's warm, I will run hard. If I'm outside, I am usually trying to find a hill, or if I'm on the treadmill, I am running uphill on the treadmill. And I will run hard for a minute and I will try to push my heart rate into zone four and hold it in zone four for a minute, and then I will go back to jogging.

Maybe lower the incline on the TR treadmill and do an active recovery for one to two minutes before I do another one of those hard intervals. And I'll try to do three to six of those hard intervals all in the time span of. 10 to 15 minutes. So if I do three intervals, I can bang it out in maybe 10 minutes.

If I'm doing six intervals, it's gonna take me 15 to 20 minutes to do it all. And I'll do the same thing on my Peloton, my stationary bike, where I'll warm up, and then I'll do a minute of going as hard as I can on the bike, cranking up the resistance, like I'm climbing a hill on the bike, get my heart rate up into that zone four, hold it there for a minute, and then go and let go slower and easier for one to two minutes while my heart rate recovers.

And then doing three to six of those intervals. And when I started doing this, I went from a VO two max of 47 to 58 in about a month, which 58 for someone my age who's 43, is at the elite level for my age group now. A marathon ultra marathon runner, they're gonna have a VO two max of 60 70. If they're a professional athlete.

So I'm not a professional athlete, but I'm in the top 5% of my age group for a non-professional athlete. Does that make sense? It does. And 58 is very high in comparison to what most of the population has. That's a unbelievable VO two max, which I think for most people out there, if you start tracking your VO two max, my guess is for the majority of people, depending on if you've kind of been working out for some period of time, you're probably gonna start off in the forties at some range in the forties, unless you really fit.

And then kinda work your way up from there. And I think that is one of those areas where, you know a lot of people, it takes some time to get it built up and it's amazing the way that you did it. 'cause for me, even specifically, I've tested out like the Norwegian four by four method where you're kind of doing four minutes on really hard, four minutes off really hard.

I like your methodology better where it's one on one off, but you can kind of get more reps in through that timeframe and you could do it faster. So I think that's something, I'm gonna implement it and see how the, you know, the one minute on, one minute off or two minutes off is gonna be, 'cause I think that is something where a lot of times Norwegian four by four, you're trying to get four minutes in that higher heart rate zone, in that zone four.

But the problem with that is that it's pretty hard to maintain for four minutes straight, especially early on for a lot of folks. So I think this is a great point where you can kind of start, you know, doing it this way first. And really if you wanna build it up or you really are, you know, focused on maxing out that VO two max, then you can kind of build it up from there.

But I really, really like the way that you do it, because that's a much easier path for most people to get started with. Yeah, I can give some advanced tips and then also to explain how I'm tracking this. So I am a tracking maniac, so not only do I wear a whoop fitness tracker, I also wear a Garmin and Garmin.

If you do a 15 or 20 minute run, it will recalibrate what your VO O2 max is. So that's how I'm tracking my VO two max is through my Garmin. The best test is one of those facilities where you get this oxygen mask put on you and you're on a treadmill, but I'm way too lazy and I'm not gonna spend the money to do that.

So I just go by what my whoop is, or by what my Garmin says. From my understanding, the Garmin VO two max tracking is fairly accurate. Yeah, it's not the gold standard of putting the oxygen mask on and going to a facility, but Garmin is really built for endurance athletes where VO two max is really important.

I've also learned some. Techniques to increase your VO two max that I learned through this app and it involves breath work. Why you are on a treadmill or running outside. I do it on a treadmill. So I'm just going to put a huge disclaimer up. Try this at your own risk. 'cause if you pass out and injure yourself, me and Andrew are not responsible.

So basically what it is, is. You're doing carbon dioxide training from my understanding. So your body's ability to process carbon dioxide. So what I do on the treadmill is I will walk uphill on an incline anywhere between 15 and 20% grade. Fortunately, my gym, the treadmill goes up all the way to 20%, which is higher than most treadmills.

Most treadmills only go to about 15%, and I will walk around a two mile per hour pace and then I will breathe in, out, in, out for maybe five to six times and then all the way out. So big breaths in, and then six to eight times to that, and then all the way out. So big breath out, and then I will hold for account.

Of eight to 10 seconds and you will feel like you're going to pass out, and then you breathe all the way in and this crazy sensation goes through your body. Especially for me, it goes through my lower legs and I'm not totally sure how to explain it. It's like they get super heavy and almost pins and needles a little bit, but not uncomfortable and.

During this time, you're after the eight to 10 seconds, you go back to normal breathing and I will do three to six sets of that on a non interval training day. And this is breath work, from my understanding, scientifically shown to improve your VO two max. Now again, strong, strong warning. Try this at your own wrist.

You literally might pass out. I haven't passed out. You feel like you're gonna pass out, but I haven't passed out. So I hold the side of the treadmill when I'm doing this. So I, in case I do pass out, I, I don't clunk my head on something. But this is a new technique that I learned maybe two months ago, two and a half months ago, that I do one to three times a week on the treadmill.

I haven't tried it outside running 'cause that just seems too dangerous to me. But on a treadmill I've tried it. So Andrew, I'll let you decide if you want to cut that piece out because it's too dangerous to put in this, but it is one kind of. Unique trick to using breath work to actually improve your VO two max?

I think it's an interesting concept 'cause overall there are, you know, I've seen some other hacks and tricks just like that, that people have been doing where they use masks or whatever else and I think it's one of those areas that probably can overall just help with the oxygen expenditure that your body has and the way that it can actually, you know, process that oxygen.

I think it's a really interesting way to, to look at this. Are there any other things when it comes to health span that you think about? I know grip strength is a big one that a lot of people talk about. You know, there's things like I do like farmer's caries for example. I don't do 'em enough, honestly. I need to grip strength train a lot more.

I know there's balance things that people do. Is there anything else that you think is important for folks before we kind of get into just some of the thoughts we have on the health and wealth connection before we close this out? The older you get, the more time you need to spend on recovery. So I do recovery protocols every single day.

And I talked about this, I forget if this was during your interview on my show or my interview on your show, but I basically, every morning I do three to 10 minutes of percussive therapy. So I have a Thera gun, which it's basically like, like a power tool. Yeah. And I give myself a self massage with that.

Then I foam roll for another three to 10 minutes, do a hot shower, followed by two minutes a cold. And then I do, and I'm, I'm a nut. So let me finish and you'll see why then I put. Arnica, which is a homeopathic cream that you can get off Amazon that helps with sore muscles. And then I'll put on some essential oils, and then I give myself a stone massage where this is a guha.

Okay. It's made out of jade. You can get a made out of all sorts of things. And so I will scrape my neck, I will scrape my chest, my biceps, my triceps, my legs, and then I have massage tools like this where I'll dig into sore muscles. And so I do this, that whole routine every freaking morning. Wow. Now I'm, I'm early retired, so it might take me, if I'm rushing, I can get it all done in 10 minutes.

If I'm taking my sweet time, it'll take me 20 to 30 minutes, but I train. A lot. So, right. I play pickleball if I can seven days a week and I am strength training four to six days a week on top of that pickleball. So I have to be hypervigilant about my recovery if I want to keep going at that pace and intensity of physical output.

So I think cold plunges massages, foam rolling, self massage like I do with a thera gun in the stone massage. All that is amazing. I also do a little bit of yoga stretching in the shower. Again, I'm a crazy person, so I do three to five minutes of stretching in the shower, 'cause my body's super hot. So I do that before I turn on the cold and before pickleball and before strength training, I will do some.

Mobility slash active stretching to get my body warmed up for the exercise. So I'm 43, I'm not 21. I can't just go right into lifting weights or running around concrete courts, otherwise I'm going to injure myself. So I think that recovery protocol, the older you get, the more that should be a part of your weekly routine.

So for me, I've just found doing some every day makes me limber mobile and injury free. But the easiest way I tell people to do it, if you're strength training three times a week, cool. Take two to seven minutes, do some foam rolling, do some active stretching, and incorporate it into those three workouts a week.

So I think mobility and active recovery is super important. Grip strength, I do agree, is really important for me. I don't proactively do it because I do so much kettlebell work, so much gymnastics, rings work and batons and clubs. I'm working on that grip strength all the time. I think that is a really important note is that for, you know, when it comes to recovery, I think that is one thing, as much as we are all training, it is something you definitely have to prioritize overall.

Like a big thing that I do is a lot of cold pl, I have a cold plunge, so it's a one of those areas where I definitely use that. I'm looking at buying Asana within the next couple of months here. And so those are two big, you know, big areas that I wanna do like hot cold exposure. Right now I only have the cold exposure, but those are things that I'm looking at too.

And I know every single time my joints feel better when I'm in the out of getting outta the cold plunge. And there's a lot of things that are really important there too. So I want to, before we wrap this up, I wanna kind of tie this in. How do you kind of see, you know, health and wealth? How do you see those intertwined?

Now we could do a whole episode on this. Obviously this is a big subject and overall this is a subject that I think there's a lot of correlations between health and wealth, but why is it so important for us as wealth builders, as people who are pursuing financial independence or phi, or people who are already financially independent?

Why is it so important to make sure that health is prioritized? Why is that one of the big keys overall? Yeah, so two notes, sauna. There's research that shows doing sauna does incredible things for your lifespan, health spans, and even your testosterone. So I go through periods where I'm super into sauna during spring and summer.

I cold plunge in the Pacific Ocean. I'm too much of a wuss to do it during the winter, so I just cold shower at home. Yep. And the incredible thing about a cold plunge is the speed of recovery for my body. If I cold plunge after, say, a day of pickleball or strength training or a double day the next day, I just feel so much better.

Yep. And. Saana is amazing. So much research on it, but onto health is wealth. There's so many parallels and this is one of the reasons why my brand is Fit Rich Life is I've been obsessed with fitness and money and wealth my whole life, as well as building a life that I absolutely love and really empowering others to build a life they absolutely love.

So right off the bat, at the beginning of this conversation we talked about tracking macros. So whether it's your finances or your fitness, what gets measured gets optimized and I found this first in my fitness, but then I applied it to my finances and it was amazing how fast when I started tracking my macros and calories and body fat percentage, literally lost 30 pounds of body fat and dropped 10% body fat.

So it went from 18 to eight. Like that's insane. Same thing with my finances. I was in debt. For a long time, $80,000 in debt. Then I started tracking my money, got outta debt, and then went on to become a millionaire. And I literally, everyone asked me, what's the number one thing you did for your money to get outta debt and become a millionaire?

And it's tracking, tracking my money, my income, my expenses, my savings rate. So the fact that that principle of tracking what gets measured, gets optimized, works in your fitness and your finances. Now, I don't believe you need to track your nutrition for 10 years, but take two months, track your nutrition, optimize it, and then you now have a blueprint of how to eat to have the physique that you want, and you can go back to intuitively eating.

Same thing with your money. If your money is not where you want it to be, the number one thing you need to do is start tracking all aspects of your money. This is super easy to do now with apps like Monarch Money and Empower Personal Dashboard, which I think has been rebranded again and. That is such a fundamental that I think everyone, whether it's your fitness journey or your financial journey, you need to start with tracking whatever the key metrics are.

And I like to think about what is the golden metric, right? So for me, on my journey to financial independence, the golden metric was my savings rate. And we talked about this, I believe in my original interviews on your show, so they can go back and deep dive on savings rate. You talked about it on my show so they can come listen to your interview on my show.

So I won't go into that. And then I think for the golden metric for fitness, I think there's a few in terms of looks, it's your body fat percentage because it doesn't matter how much muscles you have, if you have a layer of fat covering it. I think body fat percentage and muscle mass is. Really important.

And then for health span VO two max and resting heart rate is really important and those are very easy to track with say a whoop a Garmin. And then I use a body scale at home, you can include the link that tracks my body fat. So I've been tracking my body fat every single day for over 11 years. I just step on the scale.

It sends like a current through my body, I can't feel it. And it tells me what my body fat percentage is. So my goal now is just to stay at 10% or lower body fat year round, intuitively eating. And I've done that for two years. And I think that's, that's perfect. I think that's kind of the overall thing that most people need to understand is there's so much correlation and they, they work together so seamlessly.

And if you look at this in a way where, you know, like tracking what gets measured was going to be the thing that you're really gonna focus your time and energy on, that's where that correlation really does fall into play. Yeah. The other thing that I, I try to encourage every single one of my coaching clients to do, and really anybody.

Is you wanna make fitness a lifestyle because if your lifestyle is a fit lifestyle, by default, you're going to do things that keep you fit and healthy. And I also think financial independence or FI is a lifestyle. They are a set of core values, habits, practices in both fitness and phi, that if that is a part of your lifestyle, you can't help but be fit and become rich and financially free.

Yep. So I think lifestyle is, it's kind of like the foundation and then mindset is goes on top of that. So mindset is psychology and habits. So if your psychology around money, your psychology around fitness, your habits around fitness, your habits around money are good again. You can't help but get fit and rich.

And so if you're living a lifestyle that has those as core values, fitness and financial independence, and then your mindset is built around fitness and financial independence, and you're living those values, living those habits and embodying the mindset of financial independence and being fit by default, you're gonna become very fit and very rich.

Absolutely. Well, Justin, this has been incredible thus far. Thank you so much for coming on. We'll definitely have you back on here on the show very soon. Can you tell people more about where they can find out about you, your show, everything else you have going on, your coaching and everything else? Yeah, absolutely.

So the other thing we didn't talk about that I kind of mentioned in a passing at the very beginning, and I see this all the time, is people just show up to the gym and they do whatever you need to follow a structured, a well-structured workout program. Otherwise, this is why you see people go to the gym every week and a year later they look exactly the same or worse.

And you need to follow a structured workout program. So I have a free four day workout. Fit Rich life coaching.com/workout that you can follow, or you can find one on Chachi pt, but follow it for at least eight weeks and then track every workout or every exercise log every rep, every set, and try to improve every set and rep.

Like increase the weight, do more reps, and this is what is called progressive overload. This is how you build muscle, and that's the other big problem I see with people in their fitness is they're just haphazardly working out And yes. Any workout's, great. But if you really wanna shape your body and build certain muscles, you need to follow a structured workout program.

My podcast is Fit Rich Life. It's available everywhere. 80% of the episodes are the financial independence journey or the entrepreneurial journey. The other ones are the fitness journey or the relationship journey. Really what I'm trying to capture is the Hero's journey. If you're familiar with Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, every human goes through this.

Back in the day, it was like the Odyssey. Now, the modern version of the Hero's Journey, I think comes in the form of building your own business or achieving financial independence, or having a massive fitness transformation or a massive transformation in say, your relationship with another person. It's available everywhere.

I write a weekly newsletter, fit Rich Life Newsletter. It goes out every week. It's tips, tools, and strategies for fitness money in life. You can read in less than five minutes, level up your fitness money in life. And my coaching, I only work with eight to 10 clients at a time. If you're interested, you can just go to my Instagram or fit rich life coaching.com and you can set up a free consultation with me.

I have two spots open at the time of this recording. They may be refilled by the time, but there's always a wait list so you can check it out. And yeah, as I sort of mentioned, I'm semi-retired, so I play a lot of pickleball. I release a podcast every other week and I release a weekly newsletter and, uh, I'm really just enjoying my semi-retirement.

Well, awesome. We, we'll link all that up in the show notes down below. Thank you so much again for coming on. We truly, truly appreciate it. Yeah, last thing. I'm at Justin, David Carl everywhere. Most active on Threads and Instagram, but X Twitter, LinkedIn, everywhere at Justin, David, Carl, and I'm always happy to connect with people on social media.

Awesome. Well thank you so much again and to everyone listening, we will uh, link those up down the show notes and we're gonna have Justin back. So thank you again. Thanks for having me on the show, brother.